How are you planning on handling the migration to Python 3?

Question

I'm sure this is a subject that's on most python developers' minds considering that Python 3 is coming out soon. Some questions to get us going in the right direction:

1. Will you have a python 2 and python 3 version to be maintained concurrently or will you simply have a python 3 version once it's finished?

   • Have you already started or plan on starting soon? Or do you plan on waiting until the final version comes out to get into full swing?

Answer 1

Here's the general plan for Twisted. I was originally going to blog this, but then I thought: why blog about it when I could get points for it?

1. Wait until somebody cares.

   Right now, nobody has Python 3. We're not going to spend a bunch of effort until at least one actual user has come forth and said "I need Python 3.0 support", and has a good reason for it aside from the fact that 3.0 looks shiny.

2. Wait until our dependencies have migrated.

   A large system like Twisted has a number of dependencies. For starters, ours include:

   • Zope Interface
   • PyCrypto
   • PyOpenSSL
   • pywin32
   • PyGTK (though this dependency is sadly very light right now, by the time migration rolls around, I hope Twisted will have more GUI tools)
   • pyasn1
   • PyPAM
   • gmpy

   Some of these projects have their own array of dependencies so we'll have to wait for those as well.

3. Wait until somebody cares enough to help.

   There are, charitably, 5 people who work on Twisted - and I say "charitably" because that's counting me, and I haven't committed in months. We have over 1000 open tickets right now, and it would be nice to actually fix some of those — fix bugs, add features, and generally make Twisted a better product in its own right — before spending time on getting it ported over to a substantially new version of the language.

   This potentially includes sponsors caring enough to pay for us to do it, but I hope that there will be an influx of volunteers who care about 3.0 support and want to help move the community forward.

4. Follow Guido's advice.

   This means we will not change our API incompatibly, and we will follow the transitional development guidelines that Guido posted last year. That starts with having unit tests, and running the 2to3 conversion tool over the Twisted codebase.

5. Report bugs against, and file patches for, the 2to3 tool.

   When we get to the point where we're actually using it, I anticipate that there will be a lot of problems with running 2to3 in the future. Running it over Twisted right now takes an extremely long time and (last I checked, which was quite a while ago) can't parse a few of the files in the Twisted repository, so the resulting output won't import. I think there will have to be a fair amount of success stories from small projects and a lot of hammering on the tool before it will actually work for us.

   However, the Python development team has been very helpful in responding to our bug reports, and early responses to these problems have been encouraging, so I expect that all of these issues will be fixed in time.

6. Maintain 2.x compatibility for several years.

   Right now, Twisted supports python 2.3 to 2.5. Currently, we're working on 2.6 support (which we'll obviously have to finish before 3.0!). Our plan is to we revise our supported versions of Python based on the long-term supported versions of Ubuntu - release 8.04, which includes Python 2.5, will be supported until 2013. According to Guido's advice we will need to drop support for 2.5 in order to support 3.0, but I am hoping we can find a way around that (we are pretty creative with version-compatibility hacks).

   So, we are planning to support Python 2.5 until at least 2013. In two years, Ubuntu will release another long-term supported version of Ubuntu: if they still exist, and stay on schedule, that will be 10.04. Personally I am guessing that this will ship with Python 2.x, perhaps python 2.8, as /usr/bin/python, because there is a huge amount of Python software packaged with the distribution and it will take a long time to update it all. So, five years from then, in 2015, we can start looking at dropping 2.x support.

   During this period, we will continue to follow Guido's advice about migration: running 2to3 over our 2.x codebase, and modifying the 2.x codebase to keep its tests passing in both versions.

   The upshot of this is that Python 3.x will not be a source language for Twisted until well after my 35th birthday — it will be a target runtime (and a set of guidelines and restrictions) for my python 2.x code. I expect to be writing programs in Python 2.x for the next ten years or so.

So, that's the plan. I'm hoping that it ends up looking laughably conservative in a year or so; that the 3.x transition is easy as pie, and everyone rapidly upgrades. Other things could happen, too: the 2.x and 3.x branches could converge, someone might end up writing a 3to2, or another runtime (PyPy comes to mind) might allow for running 2.x and 3.x code in the same process directly, making our conversion process easier.

For the time being, however, we're assuming that, for many years, we will have people with large codebases they're maintaining (or people writing new code who want to use other libraries which have not yet been migrated) who still want new features and bug fixes in Twisted. Pretty soon I expect we will also have bleeding-edge users that want to use Twisted on python 3. I'd like to provide all of those people with a positive experience for as long as possible.